{"id":66154,"date":"2004-12-10T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2004-12-10T00:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/2004\/12\/10\/5500-deserteurs-irak-viet-nam-meme-non-combat\/"},"modified":"2004-12-10T00:00:00","modified_gmt":"2004-12-10T00:00:00","slug":"5500-deserteurs-irak-viet-nam-meme-non-combat","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/2004\/12\/10\/5500-deserteurs-irak-viet-nam-meme-non-combat\/","title":{"rendered":"5.500 d\u00e9serteurs ?! Irak-Viet-n\u00e2m, m\u00eame (non-)combat ?<\/em><\/strong>"},"content":{"rendered":"

5.500 d\u00e9serteurs ?! Irak-Viet-n\u00e2m, m\u00eame (non-)combat ?<\/h2>\n<\/p>\n

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\t10 d\u00e9cembre 2004 Nous l’admettons, nous avons \u00e9t\u00e9 stup\u00e9faits en d\u00e9couvrant le chiffre de \u00ab more than 5,500 servicemen<\/em> \u00bb. Explications, sur CBS News, en date du 8 d\u00e9cembre<\/a>, en commentaire de l’\u00e9mission 60 Minutes<\/em> du 8 d\u00e9cembre. (La question est d’ores et d\u00e9j\u00e0 reprise et relay\u00e9e par d’autres m\u00e9dias, notamment Le Times de Londres<\/a>.)<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

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\t\u00ab The Pentagon says more than 5,500 servicemen have deserted since the war started in Iraq.<\/em> <\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb 60 Minutes Wednesday found several of these deserters who left the Army or Marine Corps rather than go to Iraq. Like a generation of deserters before them, they fled to Canada.<\/em> <\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb What do these men, who have violated orders and oaths, have to say for themselves? They told Correspondent Scott Pelley that conscience, not cowardice, made them American deserters.<\/em> <\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb I was a warrior. You know? I always have been. I’ve always felt that way — that if there are people who can’t defend themselves, it’s my responsibility to do that,\u00a0\u00bb says Pfc. Dan Felushko, 24.<\/em> <\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb It was Felushko’s responsibility to ship out with the Marines to Kuwait in Jan. 2003 to prepare for the invasion of Iraq. Instead, he slipped out of Camp Pendleton, Calif., and deployed himself to Canada.<\/em> <\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb I didn’t want, you know, Died deluded in Iraq’ over my gravestone, says Felushko. If I’d gone, personally, because of the things that I believed, it would have felt wrong. Because I saw it as wrong, if I died there or killed somebody there, that would have been more wrong.<\/em> \u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

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\tLe chiffre nous a paru stup\u00e9fiant par son importance. Aussit\u00f4t nous est venue l’id\u00e9e d’une comparaison avec le Viet-n\u00e2m. Durant la guerre du Viet-n\u00e2, le ph\u00e9nom\u00e8ne de la d\u00e9sertion re\u00e7ut une publicit\u00e9 consid\u00e9rable et eut un impact important ; en tout \u00e9tat de cause, il constitue effectivement un ph\u00e9nom\u00e8ne important en volume. Nous reconnaissons n’avoir gu\u00e8re d’exp\u00e9rience en la mati\u00e8re (volume r\u00e9el de d\u00e9sertion) et nous avons demand\u00e9 l’aide habituelle du moteur de recherche.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\tNous avons s\u00e9lectionn\u00e9 un site qui nous semble \u00eatre s\u00e9rieux pour nous donner la r\u00e9f\u00e9rence du Viet-n\u00e2m, le site miafacts.org<\/em>, surtout consacr\u00e9 \u00e0 la question des MIA (Missing In Action<\/em>, ou disparus au combat), au Viet-n\u00e2m. Le site pr\u00e9sente une comptabilit\u00e9 des d\u00e9sertions qui nous semble acceptable. Cette comptabilit\u00e9 ne semble pas d\u00e9pendre d’un point de vue pol\u00e9mique, d’autant plus que cette question est accessoire dans ce cas (le centre d’int\u00e9r\u00eat du site concerne la r\u00e9alit\u00e9 des MIA). D’autre part, l’auteur et le propri\u00e9taire du site, Joe Schlatter, se pr\u00e9sente comme ayant \u00e9t\u00e9 un analyste de la DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency, le service de renseignement du Pentagone) notamment impliqu\u00e9 autour de la fin des ann\u00e9es 1980 dans la recherche du nombre r\u00e9el de d\u00e9serteurs. (En effet, dans cette pyramide de d\u00e9sinformation et d’information dirig\u00e9e qu’est le syst\u00e8me de l’am\u00e9ricanisme, la r\u00e9alit\u00e9 n’est pas prise en compte. Le mensonge tient lieu de r\u00e9alit\u00e9 et l’on perd toute trace de r\u00e9alit\u00e9 pour s’en tenir \u00e0 une sorte de r\u00e9alit\u00e9 bureaucratique. Pour retrouver la r\u00e9alit\u00e9 vraie, il faut enqu\u00eater, y compris lorsqu’on est soi-m\u00eame du Pentagone, et du service de renseignement encore.)<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\tCela pour en venir en fait : il semble bien que Schlatter (et la DIA) ait d\u00e9compt\u00e9 autour de 4.000 d\u00e9serteurs au Viet-n\u00e2m<\/a>. Voici l’extrait qui concerne l’\u00e9valuation. (On aura en m\u00eame temps un coup d’il sur la m\u00e9thodologie employ\u00e9e par le Pentagone pour consid\u00e9rer qu’un soldat est un d\u00e9serteur.)<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

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\t\u00ab In the late 1980s, when I was Chief of the DIA Special Office for POWs and MIAs, we did a thorough scrub of the deserter records. First, we went to each of the military services and asked for their records of men who were classified as deserters from Vietnam. Then, we scrubbed those records, one by one, to determine as best we could what really happened to each of these men. The answer was interesting. But first, you will have to wade through some boring stuff.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb Boring Stuff: How the military services account for people<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb To understand what we encountered with our deserter analysis project, you first need to understand how the military services account for people. Because I am a retired Army guy, my terminology will be that of the Army. The other services operate the same way, but some use different terms. Every military member must be accounted for by being either present for duty; sick and not on duty; temporarily separated from his\/her unit for training or some other special requirement; enroute to another unit; on leave or pass; missing in action; prisoner of war; prisoner of the US military; incarcerated in a civilian prison; or absent without leave (AWOL; the Marines call it UA, unauthorized absence).<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb When an individual leaves one unit with orders to report to another unit, there must be a date when accountability shifts from the losing unit to the gaining unit. Consider this common occurrence. An individual is stationed in the States and receives orders reassigning him to Europe. Enroute to Europe, he will take some leave, go to a school in the States for a few weeks, take more leave, then report to his new unit. On whose personnel strength report does this individual appear for the period that he is on leave or in school? What happens if he does not report to the school or to the new unit?<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb Reassignment orders, for both temporary and permanent reassignment, have a reporting date, the date on which you must be standing tall, duffel bag in hand, shoes shined, hair cut, brass polished, in front of your new first sergeant. If an individual does not report on his reporting date, he is carried on the rolls of the gaining unit as AWOL. After thirty days, he is DFR Dropped From the Rolls and reported as a deserter. DFR is a manpower accounting practice that does two things. First, it allows the gaining unit, which is now short one person, to request a replacement from personnel channels and, second, it allows legal action to be started against the now deserter.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb What We Found<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb When our analysts completed work with the services, we had a list of and this is from my memory close to 4,000 individuals who had deserted from units in Vietnam. We were shocked at this number because the official list of missing men carried again, this is my memory at work either 42 or 44 in the status of deserter. Upon further examination, we found that what we were looking at was a function of the way the military services account for their people.<\/em> <\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb As we tracked individual cases, we found that practically everyone of the 4,000 or so were men who were in the States (a few were in other assignments such as Germany, Japan, etc.). They received orders to go to Vietnam, complete with a unit of assignment in Vietnam and a reporting date. They never showed up in Vietnam. But, because they were on orders to units in Vietnam, they were picked up on those rolls, carried as AWOL, then, after thirty days, DFR and reported. Because they were reported as DFR by a unit in Vietnam, they showed up as being a deserter from Vietnam.<\/em> <\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bb Our analysts, working with the services, scrubbed and scrubbed and the result was that, after we culled all the cases not in Vietnam, we were down to 40-something individuals who appeared, based on the information available, to have gone over the hill while still in Vietnam.<\/em> \u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

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\tQuoiqu’il en soit et, m\u00eame en tenant compte de la relativit\u00e9 d’exactitude de ces chiffres, la stup\u00e9faction s’impose. L’ordre de grandeur est bien l\u00e0 : il y a eu autant sinon plus de d\u00e9sertions pour la guerre en Irak (21 mois de conflit de basse intensit\u00e9, effectif d\u00e9ploy\u00e9 constamment de 130.000 \u00e0 150.000 hommes, dans un climat public d’hyper-patriotisme) qu’au Viet-n\u00e2m (8 ans [1965-73] de guerre d’intensit\u00e9 moyenne\/haute, pr\u00e8s de 600.000 hommes d\u00e9ploy\u00e9s au plus haut de l’engagement, dans un climat de contestation syst\u00e9matique \u00e0 partir de 1968). Cela mesure le trouble extraordinaire, quoique silencieux ou non-exprim\u00e9, qui touche les Am\u00e9ricains, en consid\u00e9rant que l’acte de d\u00e9sertion est particuli\u00e8rement grave et que pour un d\u00e9serteur effectif on peut compter au moins autour de 5 envisageant de d\u00e9serter mais ne le faisant pas ; en consid\u00e9rant \u00e9galement que ces soldats sont, peu ou prou, des volontaires et non des appel\u00e9s mobilis\u00e9s.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\tL’Irak est en train de se r\u00e9v\u00e9ler dans toute sa lumi\u00e8re, comme un reflet de l’incapacit\u00e9 et de l’inconscience de la direction am\u00e9ricaine. Il s’agit d’un conflit compl\u00e8tement fou, bien pire \u00e0 tous les points de vue que ce que fut le Viet-n\u00e2m, qui conduit une politique violente contre les civils avec des pertes civiles consid\u00e9rables<\/a> et un r\u00e9seau syst\u00e9matique de tortures<\/a> mettant les Etats-Unis au niveau des plus sanglantes dictatures ; un conflit qui est en train de briser les structures m\u00eames des forces arm\u00e9es am\u00e9ricaines, avec ces d\u00e9sertions et le d\u00e9sordre du fonctionnement de ces forces qui \u00e9quivalent tr\u00e8s largement aux heures les plus sombres de l’Arm\u00e9e Rouge durant la Guerre froide (r\u00e9f\u00e9rence d’inefficacit\u00e9 militaire et id\u00e9ologique de la p\u00e9riode) ; tout cela, avant qu’il n’atteigne, d’une fa\u00e7on ou l’autre, le public am\u00e9ricain lui-m\u00eame.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\tDeux remarques, pour terminer :<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t• Le nombre de d\u00e9serteurs montre que le degr\u00e9 de conscience des conditions des projets de l’administration GW avec sa guerre pr\u00e9ventive, et de la stupidit\u00e9 des conceptions qui soutiennent ces projets, est beaucoup plus fort qu’on ne croit en g\u00e9n\u00e9ral. Cette conscience est parfaitement assum\u00e9e, comme le confirment les arguments que les d\u00e9serteurs pr\u00e9sentent pour expliquer leur d\u00e9cision.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t• On peut tenter d’imaginer ce que ce probl\u00e8me deviendrait s’il y avait r\u00e9installation de la conscription (alors que la conscription existait du temps du Viet-n\u00e2m, fait qui est avanc\u00e9 pour expliquer les remous politiques, les d\u00e9sertions, etc). Ce serait toute la coh\u00e9sion des forces arm\u00e9es qui serait en cause, ainsi que la stabilit\u00e9 de la population aux USA, c’est-\u00e0-dire la survie du r\u00e9gime am\u00e9ricaniste lui-m\u00eame.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

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5.500 d\u00e9serteurs ?! Irak-Viet-n\u00e2m, m\u00eame (non-)combat ? 10 d\u00e9cembre 2004 Nous l’admettons, nous avons \u00e9t\u00e9 stup\u00e9faits en d\u00e9couvrant le chiffre de \u00ab more than 5,500 servicemen \u00bb. Explications, sur CBS News, en date du 8 d\u00e9cembre, en commentaire de l’\u00e9mission 60 Minutes du 8 d\u00e9cembre. (La question est d’ores et d\u00e9j\u00e0 reprise et relay\u00e9e par… <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10],"tags":[1010],"class_list":["post-66154","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-faits-et-commentaires","tag-vietnam"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/66154","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=66154"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/66154\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=66154"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=66154"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=66154"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}