{"id":74187,"date":"2011-10-27T08:39:51","date_gmt":"2011-10-27T08:39:51","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/2011\/10\/27\/gorbatchev-et-son-heritier-spirituel-occupy-wall-street\/"},"modified":"2011-10-27T08:39:51","modified_gmt":"2011-10-27T08:39:51","slug":"gorbatchev-et-son-heritier-spirituel-occupy-wall-street","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/2011\/10\/27\/gorbatchev-et-son-heritier-spirituel-occupy-wall-street\/","title":{"rendered":"Gorbatchev et son h\u00e9ritier spirituel, Occupy Wall Street<\/em>\u2026"},"content":{"rendered":"

Symboliquement, c’est un \u00e9v\u00e9nement dont on doit mesurer l’importance, qui \u00e9tablit une passerelle fondamentale entre l’effondrement de l’Union Sovi\u00e9tique et celui, en cours, du Syst\u00e8me. Mikha\u00efl Gorbatchev, l’homme de la glasnost<\/em> et de la perestro\u00efka<\/em>, qui a liquid\u00e9, nolens volens<\/em>, le syst\u00e8me sovi\u00e9tique, reconnaissant (implicitement) Occupy Wall Street<\/em> comme l’un des siens, comme son h\u00e9ritier spirituel, comme h\u00e9ritier spirituel de la glasnost<\/em> (plut\u00f4t que<\/a> de la perestro\u00efka<\/em>, quoique lui-m\u00eame, Gorbatchev, en dise).<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\tGorbatchev parlait \u00e0 Lafayette College, en Pennsylvanie, la semaine derni\u00e8re (le 19 octobre), devant 3.600 auditeurs (en majorit\u00e9 des \u00e9tudiants, bien entendu) qui l’ont acclam\u00e9 de plusieurs standing ovations<\/em>. Russia Today<\/em> (RT) a rendu compte (le \n<\/p>\n

\tGorbachev wants perestroika for America\u00a0\u00bb class=\u00a0\u00bbgen\u00a0\u00bb>24 octobre 2011<\/a>), de cette intervention. Le compte-rendu est clair : Gorbatchev consid\u00e8re ce qui se passe aux USA comme une r\u00e9plique de ce qui s’est pass\u00e9 en URSS peu avant l’effondrement de 1989-1991. La solution, pour \u00e9viter cette catastrophe, est une perestro\u00efka<\/em> US (mais, bis repetitat<\/em>, nous dirions plut\u00f4t glasnost<\/em>) pour que cette puissance se lib\u00e8re des ses cha\u00eenes \u00e9conomiques et culturelles et permette que s’\u00e9tablisse un nouvel ordre mondial.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00abWe are reaping the consequences of a strategy that is not conducive to cooperation and partnership, to living in a new global situation, the former leader said from a venue at the Easton, Pennsylvania university. People are asking why do our leaders want to decide everything at the expense of the people?’ he asked<\/em> [] Some people in the United States were pushing the idea of creating a global American empire, and that was a mistake from the start. Other people in America are now giving thought to the future of their country. The big banks, the big corporations, are still paying the same big bonuses to their bosses. Was there ever a crisis for them? . . . I believe America needs its own perestroika.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bbMuch like the anger in Lower Manhattan and other Occupy locales across the country, Gorbachev said cries from the people were loud and constant. We needed changes in our own country; the people were demanding change, saying we can no longer live like this, we can no longer live as before.’ This required us, the leaders of the country, to propose something bold, he said. The result, he said, was to move toward democracy and freedomand step by step towards a new economy, toward market economics. But the most important thing was freedom and glasnost.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bbWith so many Americans feeling helpless to the conditions in the country today, perhaps the cries of a new breed hungry for reform and, yes, even freedom, is exactly what it will take to redo the US. Now in its second month, the Occupy Wall Street movement has confirmed that those cries are there and they’re growing.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00bbWe cannot leave things as they were before, when we are seeing that these protests are moving to even new countries, that almost all countries are now witnessing such protests, that the people want change, he said. As we are addressing these challenges, these problems raised by these protest movements, we will gradually find our way towards a new world order.<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\tLes circonstances et l’intervention de Gorbatchev soul\u00e8vent un probl\u00e8me tr\u00e8s particulier, tout \u00e0 fait \u00e9tonnant, avec plusieurs points remarquables. Il s’agit d’un probl\u00e8me d’information, voire de communication, o\u00f9 l’on pourrait voir des d\u00e9formations volontaires, mais o\u00f9, finalement, aucun esprit subversif ou faussaire sp\u00e9cifique ne serait identifiable, ni m\u00eame r\u00e9ellement pr\u00e9sent<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t Le premier point est que le discours de Gorbatchev, qui est sur le site du Lafayette College, au 20 octobre 2011<\/a>, ne nous dit pas exactement ce que RT rapporte. Nous avons choisi deux extraits de l’intervention qui se rapprochent effectivement de la situation actuelle aux USA, l’un de son discours, l’autre d’une r\u00e9ponse \u00e0 une question. (L’essentiel du discours de Gorbatchev portait sur son exp\u00e9rience historique de 1985-1991.) Par exemple, on remarquera que l’id\u00e9e I believe America needs its own perestroika<\/em>, qui est cit\u00e9e par RT comme si Gorbatchev l’avait dite directement le 19 octobre, en r\u00e9f\u00e9rence aux \u00e9v\u00e9nements pr\u00e9sents, est en r\u00e9alit\u00e9 une citation que Gorbatchev fait de lui-m\u00eame, datant de 2004 ou 2005, lors d’une autre visite aux USA. (Des soulign\u00e9s gras pour cet exemple.)<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00abI think that today, just about everyone agrees, including here in this country, that the idea of building a global American empire is a bad idea that was mistaken from the start. It was something that failed, and I think it was a political mistake to propose it. More important, I think that people in America are now giving serious thought to the future of their own country, and giving this priority. I believe this is an important change.<\/em> Six or seven years ago<\/em><\/strong> when I spoke to a huge audience in a basketball arena at a university in this country, a young man asked, Mr. Gorbachev, what would you recommend? What should we do to change things in this country? Things are getting worse. What’s your advice? I said, Giving advice to America may not be safe and, secondly, is useless. We are used to America giving advice to everyone, America pushing one model, like instant coffee, to all countries. But now in America, people understand that that was a mistake that created a mess, that must somehow end. Another young man asked, President Gorbachev, you are an experienced person, you have given your life to leadership. What is your advice as you are watching what is happening in this country?<\/em> I said<\/em><\/strong>, Well, I don’t want to give you a kind of menu or a calendar of change, but<\/em> I believe that American needs its own perestroika.<\/em><\/strong> The entire crowd gave me a standing ovation. I concluded that change was coming to America. It was a crowd of students, people from politics and business, and just ordinary people.<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\tA une question sur les soul\u00e8vements et protestations actuels, notamment le printemps arabe \u00abI understand the causes, I understand why people are protesting. Actually, you can describe it in a very simple way. People are speaking out and saying, Why do you leaders want to decide everything at the expense of the people? Why do people have to answer for all the mistakes of their rulers? The people are doing what they can. You must do what you must do. And I welcome this approach. I welcome democratic protest. I believe that the right to speak out must exist in all nations, recorded in all constitutions. It’s one of the most important rights. Therefore, no one should panic when seeing such uprisings. The governments should think about what they need to do. In the United States, the big banks, the big corporations are still paying the same big bonuses to their bosses, and the bonuses are even growing. Was there ever a crisis for those people?<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t Alors, dira-t-on, RT a travesti, ou s’est tromp\u00e9 (dans le bon sens, disons objectivement parlant) ? Si c’est le cas, il n’est pas le seul En effet, tr\u00e8s curieusement, le m\u00eame site du Lafayette College, qui, en plus du discours lui-m\u00eame, publie un reportage sur le discours de Gorbatchev, dans lequel sont introduites des citations (le 20 octobre 2011<\/a>), commet les m\u00eames erreurs que RT : il affirme que Gorbatchev fait directement allusion au mouvement Occupy Wall Street<\/em> et il pr\u00e9sente implicitement, par l’art de la citation, le I believe America needs its own perestroika<\/em> comme ayant \u00e9t\u00e9 dit le 19 octobre sur un mode direct, directement destin\u00e9 \u00e0 l’actuelle situation aux USA \u00abGorbachev was referring to the series of uprisings around the world including the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations here in the United States. The world needs goals that will bring people together, he said. Some people in the United States were pushing the idea of creating a global American empire, and that was a mistake from the start. Other people in America are now giving thought to the future of their country. The big banks, the big corporations, are still paying the same big bonuses to their bosses. Was there ever a crisis for them? . . . I believe America needs its own perestroika.<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t Enfin, des articles et commentaires sur des sites US ont repris ces id\u00e9es, dans le m\u00eame sens qui fait dire \u00e0 Gorbatchev des choses qu’il n’a pas pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment dites comme on les pr\u00e9sente, m\u00eame s’il a dit des choses qui s’en rapprochent notablement, m\u00eame si l’esprit de la chose, r\u00e9conciliant une chose et l’autre, est finalement compl\u00e8tement respect\u00e9. On lit m\u00eame, sur un site conservateur, adversaire du mouvement OWS et le reste, croyant encore en l’existence mythique du socialisme, ce qu’on pourrait entendre comme des hurlements de fureur devant les standing ovations<\/em> faites par des milliers de jeunes \u00e9tudiants \u00e0 un ancien dirigeant communiste, venant donner des le\u00e7ons aux USA d’aujourd’hui<\/strong>, apportant son soutien direct aux mouvements actuels<\/strong>, en cours aux USA (Site Lehigh Valley Conservative<\/em>, le 21 octobre 2011<\/a>.)<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\t\u00abHe spoke a lot about global governance and a one world order. He said he believes America is heading in the right direction with these uprisings on Wall Street and with the last Presidential election. Folks, if this isn’t a blaring wake up call to make sure our kids are learning what American Exceptionalism means, then I don’t know what is.<\/em> [] I watched as almost the entire room applauded his comments about American arrogance and the need for our country to stop spending on defense.<\/em>[] The fact that so many young minds sat there and applauded this garbage tells me that we have failed and continue to fail to teach our children the lessons of history. We are failing to show them the causes and effects that differentiate socialism from freedom and capitalism<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\tFinalement, nous ne retiendrons ces d\u00e9formations plut\u00f4t de circonstance et essentiellement chronologiques et de nuance, comme anecdotiques au plus sur le fond. Il ne fait aucun doute<\/strong> dans notre esprit que ce que Gorbatchev n’a pas dit pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment, il le pense pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment. Il ne fait aucun doute<\/strong> que s’il se cite lui-m\u00eame disant en 2004 ou 2005 \u00abI believe America needs its own perestroika<\/em>\u00bb, il le dit avec une certaine prudence mais qui laisse \u00e9videmment \u00e0 penser qu’il le fait comme s’il parlait directement, de la situation express\u00e9ment pr\u00e9sente et tumultueuse en cours aux USA. Cela justifie le qualificatif d’anecdotique que nous proposons, puisque Gorbatchev ne nous appara\u00eet trahi en rien, et peut-\u00eatre m\u00eame interpr\u00e9t\u00e9 comme lui-m\u00eame voulait l’\u00eatre.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

\tPlus int\u00e9ressant et plus instructif est le fait que ces d\u00e9formations ont \u00e9t\u00e9 faites par des organes de communication de tendance tr\u00e8s diff\u00e9rente, et jusqu’au r\u00e9dacteur du Lafayette College lui-m\u00eame ; et, selon notre conviction, qu’elles ont \u00e9t\u00e9 faites sans doute, sinon sans le moindre doute, sans le vouloir express\u00e9ment, d’une fa\u00e7on inconsciente. Si l’on veut, on a cit\u00e9 Gorbatchev selon l’\u00e9vidence de l’esprit de ce qu’il disait, plut\u00f4t que selon ce qu’il a dit exactement. Mais on l’a fait sans s’en expliquer, en le citant comme s’il l’avait dit pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment. Cela implique que tout le monde attendait qu’il dise ce qu’il n’a pas dit exactement, et a \u00e9crit l\u00e0-dessus dans cet esprit. Et cela nous restitue la v\u00e9rit\u00e9<\/strong> des d\u00e9clarations de Gorbatchev, puisqu’il est \u00e9vident que c’est exactement sa pens\u00e9e m\u00eame s’il ne l’exprime pas pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment dans les termes cit\u00e9s. Ce qui est alors remarquable, c’est bien que ces d\u00e9formations anodines, et finalement v\u00e9ridiques, ont \u00e9t\u00e9 d\u00e9velopp\u00e9es d’une fa\u00e7on non concert\u00e9e, du moins pour certains des cas cit\u00e9s (notamment le commentateur adversaire de OWS par rapport aux autres), comme si cette v\u00e9rit\u00e9<\/strong> de Gorbatchev apparaissait inconsciemment \u00e9vidente d’elle-m\u00eame, d’une fa\u00e7on collective et au del\u00e0 des seules sp\u00e9culations humaines. L’explication nous partait alors \u00e9vidente, au travers d’analogies tout aussi \u00e9videntes. Gorbatchev, c’est bien la fin de l’URSS, la fin d’un syst\u00e8me, et lorsqu’il parle aujourd’hui, lorsqu’il \u00e9voque la situation aux USA, cela est n\u00e9cessairement pour la comparer pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment \u00e0 la situation de la fin de l’URSS \u00e0 laquelle il a pr\u00e9sid\u00e9 ; et cette id\u00e9e-l\u00e0 est assez forte, qui conduit \u00e0 faire sans doute inconsciemment des interpr\u00e9tations et des rectifications de ses propres d\u00e9clarations, pour qu’on puisse penser qu’elle existe d’elle-m\u00eame dans les psychologie, devant le spectacle de la situation aux USA, et que le seul nom de Gorbatchev est un stimulus aussit\u00f4t utilis\u00e9 pour l’exprimer ; et cela signifie, enfin, que les psychologies, d’une fa\u00e7on collective, ont d\u00e9j\u00e0 admis pour la v\u00e9hiculer l’id\u00e9e qu’effectivement les USA se trouvent dans leur phase terminale, comme l’URSS avec l’arriv\u00e9e au pouvoir de Gorbatchev. En l’occurrence, nous ferions bien plus confiance, naturellement, aux qualit\u00e9s pr\u00e9visionnistes d’une psychologie collective ainsi inconsciemment tourn\u00e9e, pour nous faire admettre, ou pour nous confirmer, ce que va \u00eatre le destin imm\u00e9diat des USA.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

\tMis den ligne le 27 octobre 2011 \u00e0 08H42<\/p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Symboliquement, c’est un \u00e9v\u00e9nement dont on doit mesurer l’importance, qui \u00e9tablit une passerelle fondamentale entre l’effondrement de l’Union Sovi\u00e9tique et celui, en cours, du Syst\u00e8me. Mikha\u00efl Gorbatchev, l’homme de la glasnost et de la perestro\u00efka, qui a liquid\u00e9, nolens volens, le syst\u00e8me sovi\u00e9tique, reconnaissant (implicitement) Occupy Wall Street comme l’un des siens, comme son h\u00e9ritier… <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[4840,7554,3920,11548,7201,3099,11448,6925],"class_list":["post-74187","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-bloc-notes","tag-college","tag-glasnost","tag-lafayette","tag-ows","tag-perestroika","tag-psychologie","tag-russia","tag-today"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/74187","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=74187"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/74187\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=74187"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=74187"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=74187"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}