\tLe chroniqueur et enqu\u00eateur Glenn Greenwald, du Guardian<\/em>, l’indispensable \u00e9quipier du whistleblower<\/em> Snowden, sinon whistleblower<\/em> lui-m\u00eame (voir le 20 juillet 2013<\/a>), a confi\u00e9 sa surprise \u00e0 Amy Goodman, lors d’une interview \u00e0 Democracy Now !<\/em> Cette surprise concerne l’extraordinaire effet, puis la non moins extraordinaire r\u00e9sistance, voire r\u00e9silience de cet effet, tandis que des ramifications diverses naissaient de cette crise, dans toutes les directions. C’est effectivement rencontrer ce qui, \u00e0 notre sens, est le caract\u00e8re le plus remarquable de l’\u00e9v\u00e9nement.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tL’interview a \u00e9t\u00e9 diffus\u00e9e le 5 ao\u00fbt 2013<\/a> par la station-radio de Democracy Now !<\/em> d’Amy Goodman, et la transcription \u00e9crite se trouve sur le site. Voici l’extrait o\u00f9 Greenwald exprime sa surprise sur la r\u00e9silence de cette crise…<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tAmy Goodman<\/em><\/strong>: \u00ab… Glenn, as we wrap up this discussion, when you released the video of Edward Snowden and you went to Hong Kong and you released story after story about his revelationsand I want to ask if you’re going to be releasing moredid you ever expect it would come to this point several months later, two months later?<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tGlenn Greenwald<\/em><\/strong>: \u00abYou know, honestly, I didn’t. WhenI mean, I’ve been writing about surveillance issues for a long time. And for a lot of different reasons, sometimes it’s difficult to make these stories resonate, even when you’re writing about very severe abuses. I mean, remember, in 2005, The New York Times revealed that the Bush administration was spying on Americans in exactly the way that the law makes a felony, and not only were there no prosecutions from that, but the Democrats and the Republicans in Congress joined together, with very little public backlash, and essentially passed two bills in 2007 and 2008 that legalized that criminal eavesdropping program. And so, the concern, from the very first moment that I talked to Mr. SnowdenI remember really well the first conversation I had with him, and he was very clear about the fact that he had no fear about anything in terms of what he wanted to do, except for one, and that one fear he said that he had was that he would essentially sacrifice his liberty and his life and unravel his entire existence in order to make these disclosures and that these disclosures would be met by apathy and indifference on the part of the American public, the U.S. media and the political class. And so, from the beginning, our discussions were always about how to make sure that that didn’t happen, that people understood the true seriousness and the magnitude of what it was that was being revealed.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n \t\u00bbAnd I have to say, I mean, two months later, to watch, you know, essentially this extraordinary and unprecedented coalition of conservatives and liberals and tea party and centrists join together in the Congress and defy the White House and the leadership for serious reform in a real way, to see huge shifts in public opinion, to see the national security state for the first time really on its heels, to see numerous countries around the world defying the United States, to see a worldwide debate in multiple countries around the globe over what the United States is doing, to see huge amounts of public support for what Mr. Snowden has done in ways that I think will be consciousness-shifting on lots of levels, has not only been really gratifying, but, yeah, honestly, it has been surprising. And I haven’t fully been able to stop and think about, you know, and analyze all the reasons why it has resonated this way, but clearly there was something kind of in the ether that was ready for this sort of political controversy. And I think that you do see enormous amounts of impact in the way that people are thinking and mobilizing, not just about surveillance, but about the role of the government and secrecy and the United States in general.<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tAmy Goodman<\/em><\/strong>: \u00abAnd will you be releasing more information?<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tGlenn Greenwald<\/em><\/strong>: \u00abYeah, there’s a lot more stories that I’m working on right this very minute.<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \t(N.B. : selon d’autres d\u00e9clarations tr\u00e8s r\u00e9centes, qui confirment des pr\u00e9c\u00e9dentes, il semble effectivement que Greenwald ait en sa possession plusieurs milliers de documents diff\u00e9rents. Selon les d\u00e9clarations, les chiffres varient entre 9 000, 15 000 et 20 000. (Voir \tDans la m\u00eame interview, Greenwald donne \u00e9galement des pr\u00e9cisions sur l’audition exceptionnelle \u00e0 la Chambre, pr\u00e9vue<\/a> pour le 31 juillet et annul\u00e9e au dernier moment. Il semble qu’elle ne soit effectivement que report\u00e9e, et Snowden donne les dates du 17 ou 18 septembre pour sa tenue. (En ao\u00fbt, le Congr\u00e8s est en vacances.) Bien entendu, on peut faire l’hypoth\u00e8se que, d’ici l\u00e0, diverses tentatives seront faites pour repousser \u00e0 nouveau ou annuler ce projet.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tAmy Goodman<\/em><\/strong>: \u00abGlenn, you were supposed to testify last week before Congress. That hearing was canceled because President Obama was meeting with Democrats. But instead, you released a major piece. And I want to talk about that in a second, but will you be testifying before Congress again? And would you come into the United States to testify? Last week it was going to be by Skype.<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tGlenn Greenwald<\/em><\/strong>: \u00abSo, the hearing hasI don’t know if it’s been finalized, but I believe it’s been rescheduled for September the 17th or 18th. They definitely intend to reschedule that hearing that was canceled when President Obama suddenly developed a newfound interest in speaking with House Democrats, whom he’s traditionally ignored, which caused the cancellation of that hearing. So, I believe that it is being rescheduled. Whether I would come and physically appear or appear remotely by video depends on a number of factors, including my schedule, the reporting that I’m doing at the time, as well as thethe legal advices that I get from my lawyers. So, we’ll see whether or not that hearing takes place with me remotely there or physically there, but I absolutely intend to testify.<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tCes observations de Greenwald semblent rencontrer, dans l’esprit de la chose qui est la volont\u00e9 du groupe anti-NSA de la Chambre de poursuivre son offensive, des d\u00e9clarations parall\u00e8les du parlementaire r\u00e9publicain Justin Amash, l’auteur du projet d’amendement anti-NSA qui a failli \u00eatre vot\u00e9 par la Chambre le 24 juillet. Dimanche, sur Fox.News<\/em>, Amash a rejoint son coll\u00e8gue Massie<\/a> en d\u00e9clarant que, selon son jugement, Snowden est un whistleblower<\/em>, donc un homme honorable et un h\u00e9ros auquel le pays doit \u00eatre reconnaissant de son action, et nullement un tra\u00eetre. (\u00abYes… As I said, he may be doing things overseas that we’d find problematic, that we’d find dangerous we’ll find those facts out over time. But as far as Congress is concerned, sure, he’s a whistleblower. He told us what we need to know.<\/em>\u00bb) Russia Today<\/em>, qui relaie les d\u00e9clarations de Amash le 6 ao\u00fbt 2013<\/a>, rapporte les r\u00e9flexions du parlementaires sur la m\u00e9sinformation ou la d\u00e9sinformation dont sont victimes la plupart des parlementaires pour cette mati\u00e8re des domaines classifi\u00e9s dont fait partie la NSA. (Un texte r\u00e9cent de Greenwald, du 4 ao\u00fbt 2013<\/a>, donne des exemples tr\u00e8s concrets et tr\u00e8s r\u00e9cents de cette situation. Ces points renvoient \u00e0 notre F&C<\/em> du 21 juin 2013<\/a>, sur le \u00abpremier cercle du Syst\u00e8me<\/em>\u00bb.) Russia Today<\/em> :<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \t\u00abRep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) on Sunday called former NSA contractor Edward Snowden a whistleblower, not a traitor, and said that members of Congress would have been left in the dark about the NSA’s spy tactics if it weren’t for the information leaks.<\/em> […] Without his doing what he did, members of Congress would not have really known about<\/em> [those programs<\/em>], Amash said. Members of Congress were not really aware on the whole about what these programs were being used for and the extent to which they were being used. Members of the intelligence committee were told, but rank-and-file members really didn’t have the information.<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tDans l’interview de Democracy Now !<\/em>, Greenwald aborde aussi, \u00e0 la demande d’Amy Goodman, l’alerte globale lanc\u00e9e par l’administration Obama \u00e0 propos d’une menace d’attaque d’al Qa\u00efda. Bien \u00e9videmment, il observe comme une \u00e9vidence la manipulation que constitue cette alerte, pour tenter de redonner \u00e0 la NSA un lustre et une popularit\u00e9 facin\u00e9e dont on cherche en vain la trace aujourd’hui. Il r\u00e9pond \u00e0 Goodman sur le point sp\u00e9cifique d’une intervention, dimanche dernier, du s\u00e9nateur Saxby Chambliss, membre \u00e9minent de la commission sur le renseignement du S\u00e9nat (parmi les 1% du Congr\u00e8s qui sont inform\u00e9s r\u00e9guli\u00e8rement \u00e0 propos des activit\u00e9s de la NSA, d’une fa\u00e7on syst\u00e9matique durant des auditions \u00e0 huis clos).<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \t\u00abYou know, it’s so ludicrous. For eight straight years, literally, Democrats, every time there was a terrorist alert or a terrorist advisory issued by the United States government in the middle of a debate over one of the Bush-Cheney civil liberties abuses, would accuse the United States government and the national security state of exaggerating terrorism threats, of manipulating advisories, of hyping the dangers of al-Qaeda, in order to distract attention away from their abuses and to scare the population into submitting to whatever it is they wanted to do. And so, here we are in the midst of, you know, one of the most intense debates and sustained debates that we’ve had in a very long time in this country over the dangers of excess surveillance, and suddenly an administration that has spent two years claiming that it has decimated al-Qaeda decides that there is this massive threat that involves the closing of embassies and consulates throughout the world. And within literally an amount of hours, the likes of Saxby Chambliss and Lindsey Graham join with the White House and Democrats in Congresswho, remember, are the leading defenders of the NSA at this pointto exploit that terrorist threat and to insist that it shows that the NSA and these programs are necessary.<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tUn prolongement particuli\u00e8rement grotesque, et bien entendu r\u00e9v\u00e9lateur une fois de plus de l’\u00e9vidence qu’est la manipulation de cette alerte, concerne le Yemen, o\u00f9 l’on a d\u00e9cid\u00e9 que le cur de la menace globale d\u00e9cr\u00e9t\u00e9e par Washington se trouvait. D’une part, les nouvelles washingtoniennes d\u00e9crivent un \u00e9tat de super-alerte, avec des troupes y\u00e9m\u00e9nites investissant la capitale Sanaa pour tenter de pr\u00e9venir la seconde attaque du si\u00e8cle (apr\u00e8s 9\/11) (Voir le Guardian<\/em> le 6 ao\u00fbt 2013<\/a>.) D’autre part, McClatchy.News<\/em> signale le 7 ao\u00fbt 2013<\/a> que le gouvernement y\u00e9m\u00e9nite, en principe ami des USA et en lutte contre al Qa\u00efda-qui-n’existe-plus, n’appr\u00e9cie gu\u00e8re le comportement de Washington et proteste hautement contre l’alerte globale au terrorisme et les mesures qui sont prises par le gouvernement US, qui sous-entendraient que lui-m\u00eame, le gouvernement y\u00e9m\u00e9nite, n’est pas capable d’assurer l’ordre chez lui. (Plus encore, comme l’observe Antiwar.com<\/em> le 7 ao\u00fbt 2013<\/a>, il y a la crainte que cette alerte, avec tout le d\u00e9sordre qui l’accompagne, n’alimente et ne r\u00e9veille des conflits locaux, au Yemen.) Sans doute, les USA ont-ils oubli\u00e9 d’aviser leurs amis y\u00e9m\u00e9nites du sens de la manuvre et que, apr\u00e8s tout, le haut degr\u00e9 d’alerte o\u00f9 sont plac\u00e9es les special forces<\/em> US pourraient aussi bien signifier que ces forces se tiendraient pr\u00eates, si al Qa\u00efda n’agit pas selon le plan pr\u00e9vu, \u00e0 assurer elles-m\u00eames l’attaque qui risquerait alors de faire d\u00e9faut…<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \t\u00abYemeni officials on Tuesday sharply denounced the United States’ decision to evacuate some of its staff from its embassy in the country in the first sign of a split between allies over the Obama administration’s reaction to what U.S. officials say is one of the most specific terrorism threats in years. In a statement issued by the Foreign Ministry, Yemen said it appreciates foreign governments’ concern for the safety of their citizens. But it added that the decision by the United States and Great Britain to evacuate embassy staff serves the interests of the extremists and undermines the exceptional cooperation between Yemen and the international alliance against terrorism. Yemen has taken all necessary precautions to ensure the safety and security of foreign missions in the capital, the statement said. Yemen remains strongly committed to the global effort to counter the threats of al Qaida and its affiliates.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n \t\u00bbThe statement seemed to suggest that Yemen’s government views as unnecessary the U.S. decision to close its embassies in Sanaa and 20 other countries over the weekend and to keep the closures in place in 16 nations for the remainder of the week. But analysts in the United States said the U.S. actions, which have unfolded over five days, suggested that U.S. officials were truly concerned.<\/em>\u00bb<\/p>\n<\/p>\n \tLe point remarquable que l’on peut d\u00e9gager de cette rapide appr\u00e9ciation de divers \u00e9v\u00e9nements s’inscrivant dans cette crise Snowden,\/NSA, dans laquelle nous n’h\u00e9sitons pas \u00e0 placer l’alerte globale \u00e0 une attaque terroriste, dans tous les cas pour ce qui est des conditions employ\u00e9es par l’administration et les soutiens de la NSA, c’est que ce denier aspect n’arrive pas \u00e0 prendre le dessus sur l’aspect des r\u00e9v\u00e9lations et du d\u00e9bat sur les activit\u00e9s int\u00e9rieures<\/strong> de la NSA. De ce point de vue, l’initiative\/montage de l’administration Obama est loin d’\u00eatre un succ\u00e8s, et encore plus si l’on consid\u00e8re que certains partenaires ext\u00e9rieurs (le Y\u00e9men) commencent \u00e0 se lasser de jouer les pions d’occasion dans une machination essentiellement washingtonienne. Il est possible que l’administration Obama se trouve ainsi devant des risques s\u00e9rieux de d\u00e9rapages dans son montage de l’attaque terroriste. Il est possible par cons\u00e9quent que la crise Snowden\/NSA se complique encore un peu plus, en nous offrant un nouveau champ d’activit\u00e9 pour son activisme, qui serait celui des relations des USA avec certains de ses alli\u00e9s moyen-orientaux, en g\u00e9n\u00e9ral trait\u00e9s comme des satellites qu’on ne se pr\u00e9occupe m\u00eame pas d’informer.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n <\/p>\n \tMis en en ligne le 7 ao\u00fbt 2013 \u00e0 08H31<\/p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Les surprises de Greenwald, de Snowden au Yemen Le chroniqueur et enqu\u00eateur Glenn Greenwald, du Guardian, l’indispensable \u00e9quipier du whistleblower Snowden, sinon whistleblower lui-m\u00eame (voir le 20 juillet 2013), a confi\u00e9 sa surprise \u00e0 Amy Goodman, lors d’une interview \u00e0 Democracy Now ! Cette surprise concerne l’extraordinaire effet, puis la non moins extraordinaire r\u00e9sistance, voire… <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[3936,5924,12312,3285,4173,3871,4242,12224,1267,12160,9076],"class_list":["post-75140","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-bloc-notes","tag-al","tag-alerte","tag-amash","tag-congres","tag-montage","tag-nsa","tag-qaida","tag-snowden","tag-terrorisme","tag-whistleblower","tag-yemen"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/75140","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=75140"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/75140\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=75140"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=75140"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=75140"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}