{"id":75967,"date":"2015-06-24T05:43:58","date_gmt":"2015-06-24T05:43:58","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/2015\/06\/24\/et-voici-victoria-la-colombe-messagere-de-la-paix\/"},"modified":"2015-06-24T05:43:58","modified_gmt":"2015-06-24T05:43:58","slug":"et-voici-victoria-la-colombe-messagere-de-la-paix","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/2015\/06\/24\/et-voici-victoria-la-colombe-messagere-de-la-paix\/","title":{"rendered":"Et voici Victoria la colombe messag\u00e8re-de-la-paix"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><h2 class=\"titleset_a.deepgreen\" style=\"color:#75714d;font-size:2em;\">Voici Victoria, colombe messag\u00e8re-de-la-paix<\/h2>\n<\/p>\n<p><p>Il nous a paru tr\u00e8s int\u00e9ressant de publier cette interview de Avidor Eskin r\u00e9alis\u00e9 par <em>Sputnik.News<\/em>, sur la situation en Ukraine et sur la position US actuelle selon lui (Eskin), avec notamment ce symbole de Nuland pr\u00e9sent\u00e9e comme d\u00e9ployant tous ses charmes pour la promotion d&rsquo;une solution pacifique n\u00e9goci\u00e9e en Ukraine. <a class=\"gen\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Avigdor_Eskin\">Avigdor Eskin<\/a>, Russe juif n\u00e9 en 1960, devenu sioniste et \u00e9migrant en Isra\u00ebl en 1978, s&rsquo;est affirm\u00e9 comme un personnage contest\u00e9, et un ultra-conservateur sioniste en Isra\u00ebl. Il a gard\u00e9 des liens tr\u00e8s forts avec la Russie et, dans la crise ukrainienne actuelle, s&rsquo;est affich\u00e9 comme partisan de la Russie et de Poutine, ce qui est tr\u00e8s appr\u00e9ci\u00e9 comme on l&rsquo;imaginera ais\u00e9ment dans les milieux conservateurs et nationalistes russes. Cette position vis-\u00e0-vis de la Russie et de la crise ukrainienne correspond effectivement \u00e0 certaines tendances de la droite extr\u00eame isra\u00e9lienne et explique une position extr\u00eamement <a class=\"gen\" href=\"http:\/\/www.dedefensa.org\/article-isra_l_et_l_ukraine_une_ambigu_t_extr_me_12_04_2014.html\">ambigu\u00eb<\/a> du gouvernement isra\u00e9lien vis-\u00e0-vis de la crise ukrainienne, et une distance certaine avec la position US qui n&rsquo;est nullement go&ucirc;t\u00e9e <a class=\"gen\" href=\"http:\/\/www.dedefensa.org\/article-bho_n_aime_pas_du_tout_la_neutralit_ukrainienne_d_isra_l_14_04_2014.html\">\u00e0 Washington<\/a>. Cette situation politique et id\u00e9ologique n&rsquo;est pas le moindre des paradoxes de la crise ukrainienne, et, d&rsquo;une fa\u00e7on g\u00e9n\u00e9rale, illustre l&rsquo;extr\u00eame difficult\u00e9 d&rsquo;\u00e9tablir un classement clair des positions des uns et des autres dans nombre de probl\u00e8mes, &ndash; au Moyen-Orient comme dans la crise ukrainienne, &ndash; cela correspondant parfaitement \u00e0 la situation g\u00e9n\u00e9rale de d\u00e9sordre-<a class=\"gen\" href=\"http:\/\/www.dedefensa.org\/article-glossairedde_hyperd_sordre_d_sordre_et_chaos_16_02_2015.html\">hyperd\u00e9sordre<\/a> dont la <a class=\"gen\" href=\"http:\/\/www.dedefensa.org\/article-glossairedde_la_politique-syst_me__17_11_2012.html\">politique-Syst\u00e8me<\/a> aveugle impos\u00e9e par le Syst\u00e8me et nullement r\u00e9alis\u00e9e en tant que telle par les dirigeants-Syst\u00e8me qui l&rsquo;appliquent est la cause, et dont on voit chaque jour des exemples multiples.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p>&Eacute;videmment, le point le plus spectaculaire de l&rsquo;interview d&rsquo;Eskin est son commentaire favorable de la toute r\u00e9cente rencontre (le 18 juin), en Allemagne, de Victoria Nuland avec l&rsquo;adjoint au ministre des affaires \u00e9trang\u00e8res russe Karasine. Nuland \u00e9tait en tourn\u00e9e europ\u00e9enne \u00e0 propos de la crise ukrainienne, comme Kerry l&rsquo;annon\u00e7ait dans son intervention du 16 juin devant la presse accr\u00e9dit\u00e9e du d\u00e9partement d&rsquo;&Eacute;tat (voir le <a class=\"gen\" href=\"http:\/\/www.dedefensa.org\/article-notes_sur_la_crise_l_lectro-enc_phalogramme_plat_21_06_2015.html\">21 juin 2015<\/a>) : &laquo;<em>Victoria Nuland will be over visiting some folks in the region shortly &ndash; today, tomorrow, and the next days.<\/em>&raquo; Justement, puisque nous nous r\u00e9f\u00e9rons \u00e0 notre texte du <a class=\"gen\" href=\"http:\/\/www.dedefensa.org\/article-notes_sur_la_crise_l_lectro-enc_phalogramme_plat_21_06_2015.html\">21 juin 2015<\/a>, on pourra appr\u00e9cier l&rsquo;<strong>extraordinaire diff\u00e9rence d&rsquo;analyse<\/strong> entre ce que nous dit Eskin (de Nuland, mais d&rsquo;une fa\u00e7on g\u00e9n\u00e9rale de la position US) et les analyses des diff\u00e9rents experts US cit\u00e9s dans l&rsquo;article (Parry, Carden, Cohen) qui ne cessent de d\u00e9plorer et de d\u00e9noncer la position maximaliste anti-russe sinon belliciste de l&rsquo;administration Obama du fait d&rsquo;Obama lui-m\u00eame, et la trahison de l'\u00a0\u00bbesprit de Sotchi\u00a0\u00bb ; pourtant, ces trois experts ont toutes les comp\u00e9tences n\u00e9cessaires pour juger de la situation US, et ils sont, objectivement parlant sur cette crise ukrainienne, proches de la position d&rsquo;Eskin, &ndash; les uns et les autres objectivement antiSyst\u00e8me dans ce cas, quelles que soient leurs autres positions. Par contre, certes, Eskin \u00e9nonce un jugement, notamment sur la position de Nuland, qui se rapproche de ce que nous avons pu discerner de la position \u00ab\u00a0personnelle\u00a0\u00bb de Kerry lors de son intervention du 16 juin &#8230; Il est bien difficile de s&rsquo;y retrouver, si l&rsquo;on entend s&rsquo;y retrouver d&rsquo;une mani\u00e8re rationnelle et coh\u00e9rente en se tenant exclusivement \u00e0 ce qu&rsquo;on entend aujourd&rsquo;hui par rationalit\u00e9 et coh\u00e9rence.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p>Donc, Eskin est tr\u00e8s optimiste. Il applaudit au vote <a class=\"gen\" href=\"http:\/\/www.dedefensa.org\/article-coup_de_force_anti-kiev_au_congr_s_us_par_surprise_15_06_2015.html\">si surprenant<\/a> par son unanimit\u00e9 de la Chambre des Repr\u00e9sentants au Congr\u00e8s US contre toute aide au bataillon <em>Azov<\/em>, ridiculise l&rsquo;activisme de John McCain, parle m\u00eame des bonnes mani\u00e8res de <a class=\"gen\" href=\"http:\/\/www.dedefensa.org\/article-et_voici_victoria_la_colombe_messag_re-de-la-paix_24_06_2015.html\">Donald Trump<\/a>, etc. Il dit que le climat \u00e0 Washington est en train d&rsquo;\u00e9voluer, ce qui confirmerait l'\u00a0\u00bbesprit de Sotchi\u00a0\u00bb plut\u00f4t que le trahir, mais il dit cela comme s&rsquo;il n&rsquo;avait pas entendu les vitup\u00e9rations contre la Russie, voire les quasi-insultes \u00e0 l&rsquo;intention de Poutine, du pr\u00e9sident Obama lors du G7 et la litanie antirusse de toute la presse-Syst\u00e8me et des principales d\u00e9clarations des dirigeants-Syst\u00e8me du bloc BAO. (Et il ignore, volontairement ou simplement parce qu&rsquo;il ne le sait pas, que les contacts US de la bureaucratie europ\u00e9enne de l&rsquo;UE continuent aujourd&rsquo;hui, plus d&rsquo;un mois plus tard, \u00e0 marteler comme nous le rapportions d\u00e9j\u00e0 le <a class=\"gen\" href=\"http:\/\/www.dedefensa.org\/article-kerry-sotchi_ou_la_confusion_entre_le_mieux_et_le_pire_19_05_2015.html\">19 mai 2015<\/a> une position dure et \u00e0 d\u00e9mentir, contre l&rsquo;\u00e9vidence, que les USA [Kerry-Nuland] se soient montr\u00e9s tr\u00e8s conciliants et tr\u00e8s amicaux avec les Russes \u00e0 Sotchi : &laquo;<em>Des sources ind\u00e9pendantes rapportent que, dans les briefings donn\u00e9s par les divers contacts du gouvernement US \u00e0 leurs homologues des pays du bloc BAO dans lesquels les Europ\u00e9ens figurent en bonne place, la version am\u00e9ricaniste officielle, de l&rsquo;administration Obama, est qu&rsquo;il ne faut pas \u00ab\u00a0croire ce que la presse rapporte\u00a0\u00bb (pauvre presse-Syst\u00e8me, pourtant si aimable par sa discr\u00e9tion !), que la partie US a \u00e9t\u00e9 d&rsquo;une \u00ab\u00a0duret\u00e9 extraordinaire\u00a0\u00bb vis-\u00e0-vis des Russes, sur tous les sujets, y compris l&rsquo;Ukraine bien entendu, qu&rsquo;elle est donc sortie compl\u00e8tement victorieuse de cette confrontation qu&rsquo;elle avait elle-m\u00eame suscit\u00e9e sans que personne ne lui ait rien demand\u00e9. Cette version est martel\u00e9e partout dans les r\u00e9seaux officiels du bloc BAO, d&rsquo;une fa\u00e7on officieuse comme il se doit<\/em>&raquo;.)<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p>Sur la situation en Ukraine m\u00eame, l&rsquo;analyse d&rsquo;Eskin va dans le m\u00eame sens, c&rsquo;est-\u00e0-dire dans ce cas dans le sens d&rsquo;un jugement d\u00e9favorable, et surtout d&rsquo;un constat que les extr\u00e9mistes de Kiev-la-folle ne cessent de voir leur cr\u00e9dit baisser et leur situation s&rsquo;affaiblir. Il donne des pr\u00e9cisions sur le climat vis-\u00e0-vis des juifs ukrainiens, notamment en fonction de la puissance des extr\u00e9mistes n\u00e9o-nazis, et parle d&rsquo;une \u00e9migration importante de cette population fuyant l&rsquo;antis\u00e9mitisme et craignant pour sa s\u00e9curit\u00e9. Cet aspect des d\u00e9clarations d&rsquo;Eskin est moins sujet \u00e0 l&rsquo;ambigu\u00eft\u00e9 g\u00e9n\u00e9rale dans laquelle baigne le reste, &ndash; ambigu\u00eft\u00e9 g\u00e9n\u00e9rale non pas \u00e0 cause de lui, Eskin, mais simplement \u00e0 cause du d\u00e9sordre g\u00e9n\u00e9ral emp\u00eachant de fixer une image claire de la situation. A nouveau, l\u00e0 aussi comme dans tant d&rsquo;autres circonstances, on se trouve devant ce mur que les \u00e9v\u00e8nements et les perceptions (au pluriel) qu&rsquo;on en ressent, dressent devant nous pour permettre justement ce fameux jugement des seules rationalit\u00e9 et coh\u00e9rence permises par l&rsquo;esprit du temps postmoderne. On conna&icirc;t bien entendu notre position l\u00e0-dessus, selon laquelle les \u00e9v\u00e8nements, justement, ont \u00e9chapp\u00e9 \u00e0 notre contr\u00f4le &#8230; Ils ont m\u00eame \u00e9chapp\u00e9, semble-t-il, au contr\u00f4le de Victoria Nuland qui se comporte donc d\u00e9sormais en parfaite petite messag\u00e8re de son patron John Kerry, &ndash; lequel s&rsquo;av\u00e8re finalement, s&rsquo;il a une jambe cass\u00e9e, garder le bras long, ou le retrouver dans tous les cas au sein de son administration puisqu&rsquo;il semble \u00ab\u00a0tenir\u00a0\u00bb Nuland. Tout cela alimente l&rsquo;extr\u00eame relativisme forc\u00e9 de notre jugement si l&rsquo;on s&rsquo;en tient justement \u00e0 ces seuls \u00e9v\u00e8nements, plut\u00f4t que le fixer. Cela rend parfaitement logique de juger que, m\u00eame si elle ajoute au d\u00e9sordre et parce qu&rsquo;elle ajoute au d\u00e9sordre, la position d&rsquo;Eskin est int\u00e9ressante \u00e0 conna&icirc;tre.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p>L&rsquo;interview de Avigdor Eskin a \u00e9t\u00e9 publi\u00e9e sous le titre &laquo;<em>Nuland : US Not Interested in Further Escalation in Ukraine<\/em>&raquo;, le <a class=\"gen\" href=\"http:\/\/sputniknews.com\/analysis\/20150621\/1023665912.html#ixzz3dwQnbrxI\">22 juin 2015<\/a> par <em>Sputnik.News<\/em>.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><h4><em>dedefensa.org<\/em><\/h4>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><em>_______________________<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><h2 class=\"titleset_b.deepgreen\" style=\"color:#75714d;font-size:1.65em;font-variant:small-caps;\">Interview : Avigdor Eskin<\/h2>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Sputnik.News<\/em><\/strong> : &laquo;<em>One of the top US officials, Victoria Nuland has called for the implementation of the Ukraine peace accords. Officials have confirmed their joint support for the full implementation of the February 12th Minsk agreements. Do you feel that this is a real change in policies or is this somewhat of a tactical change maybe a sleight of hand?<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Avigdor Eskin<\/em><\/strong>: &laquo;<em>When someone is so ultimately hawkish as Victoria Nuland starts talking differently with Russian partners and instead of bringing cookies to Maidan, consumes Russian products as well &ndash; it makes a certain change in the atmosphere. She had a very good meeting with Mr. Karasin, she made few reasonable statements. And she made clear that the US will support Russia in efforts of holding fire in Donetsk and Lugansk. They are not interested in any escalation. That is what she emphasized over and over again. Moscow is not interested in escalation as well. Due to some changes in the US Congress &ndash; there is progress. We can see their decision to stop any help to the Azov battalion.<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Sputnik.News<\/em><\/strong> : &laquo;<em>But on the other hand there&rsquo;s talks of John McCain sending weapons to Ukraine, so on one hand it seems as if we have a good cop and a bad cop. Victoria Nuland is being on record as being very anti-Russian. Are you suggesting that we&rsquo;re moving towards a second phase or a different phase of this new cold war rhetoric?<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Avigdor Eskin<\/em><\/strong>: &laquo;<em>John McCain is less influential today then someone like Jeb Bush or Donald Trump, he is not even a candidate. You can see some good statements made by Trump. McCain is not the real decision maker in anything to do with Russia. He can be friend of Saakashvilli &ndash; that is his level, of a friend of someone else in Kiev. His influence is close to zero today. America saw and realized the results of his actions.<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Sputnik.News<\/em><\/strong> : &laquo;<em>When you talk of Saakashvilli, you touch upon an interesting point. He&rsquo;s appointed governor of Odessa, and Odessa is close to Transnistria, and Transnistria itself is somewhat of a replay South Ossetia &ndash; Georgian war. Isn&rsquo;t that what we are going to see? More conflict in the region?<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Avigdor Eskin<\/em><\/strong>: &laquo;<em>I don&rsquo;t think Saakashvilli will do what he did in Georgia. But in Georgia he did everything to make Georgia lose its territory. From his commentaries we can see that the guy went crazy. He did everything that the Russian side would have no other option to reply. Was it right or wrong &ndash; history will tell. But Saakashvilli was a curse for Georgia, I&rsquo;m sure he&rsquo;ll be much more careful in Odessa.<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Sputnik.News<\/em><\/strong> : &laquo;<em>There is a bill that is put up by two congressmen to block the Ukrainian Neo-Nazi Azov battalion. What impact is the US Congress decision will make?<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Avigdor Eskin<\/em><\/strong>: &laquo;<em>The US admits that Nazi battalions and glorification of Nazi ideology really exists. They admit what has been coming from Russian side. And we are talking about Government policy and not just anti-Semitic and Nazi element. Ukrainian President announces Bandera and Shukhevich as national heroes, the Verkhovna Rada passes a legislation to glorify those Ukrainians who collaborated with Nazis. And if the US understands this better now &ndash; I&rsquo;m sure there&rsquo;ll be much easier ways to find a solution for Ukraine, and relations will improve. The US need to understand that people who lost so many lives in WW2 just cannot be idle to this kind of policy.<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Sputnik.News<\/em><\/strong> : &laquo;<em>Donald Trump announced his candidacy last week. Trump was easy on Russian president. He said that Putin is extremely popular, people love what he is doing, and said that you can get along with these people (Russian), you can make deals with those people. If he is elected, could it be a positive development?<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Avigdor Eskin<\/em><\/strong>: &laquo;<em>I think any of such things would be a positive development. I think in modern world USA and Russia should be allies, should defend western civilization from ISIL and other threats. According to the UN There are 60 mln refugees in the world this year. And all these people, where do you think they will go? To Africa, Rwanda? I mean, the western world faces horrible danger, and instead of being united &ndash; US and Russia reach new and new levels of tension. It&rsquo;s the reminiscence of the past. It has nothing to do with today&rsquo;s realities. Russia can take place which is clearly defined by its boundaries. And the US will not move NATO further east. And then you would see how good the relations can be between the two countries. And any candidate who will take this as one of his points will gain from this for sure.<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Sputnik.News<\/em><\/strong> : &laquo;<em>What is going on in Ukraine now? There have been numerous anti-Semitic incidents there.<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Avigdor Eskin<\/em><\/strong>: &laquo;<em>Nowadays Neo-Nazi groups there are not trying to hide their feelings towards the Jews and other minorities. They recently refused the fact that there will be a memorial to Jews slaughtered during the WW2, some of them by Ukrainian collaborators. And now some hooligans desecrated another memorial in Nikopol, Dnepropetrovsk area. Dnepropetrovsk is out of control of Kolomoiskyi now. And Kolomoiskyi is one of the persons who created a wave of anti-Semitism in Ukraine. So all together Jews are under direct threat now there, and many of them have left and are leaving for Israel now.<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Sputnik.News<\/em><\/strong> : &laquo;<em>Feelings of people that have been held down for a long time are coming to the surface?<\/em>&raquo;<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p><p><strong><em>Avigdor Eskin<\/em><\/strong>: &laquo;<em>Despite this very groomy and tragic situation in Ukraine &ndash; on Victory Day May 9 there were millions of people celebrating it, and not celebrating in memory of Neo Nazi collaborators. There is a great potential for Ukrainian people to get into new peaceful and constructive relations with Russians. We have to pray that Western Europe and USA will help to do it, so that then together we could face real troubles that stand before us today.<\/em>&raquo;<\/p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Voici Victoria, colombe messag\u00e8re-de-la-paix Il nous a paru tr\u00e8s int\u00e9ressant de publier cette interview de Avidor Eskin r\u00e9alis\u00e9 par Sputnik.News, sur la situation en Ukraine et sur la position US actuelle selon lui (Eskin), avec notamment ce symbole de Nuland pr\u00e9sent\u00e9e comme d\u00e9ployant tous ses charmes pour la promotion d&rsquo;une solution pacifique n\u00e9goci\u00e9e en Ukraine.&hellip;&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"neve_meta_sidebar":"","neve_meta_container":"","neve_meta_enable_content_width":"","neve_meta_content_width":0,"neve_meta_title_alignment":"","neve_meta_author_avatar":"","neve_post_elements_order":"","neve_meta_disable_header":"","neve_meta_disable_footer":"","neve_meta_disable_title":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[14],"tags":[16732,15786,16031,3682,15787,2774,855,2797,5520,16367,2663,2730,7723,6076,5456,2639,1296,11210],"class_list":["post-75967","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-ouverture-libre","tag-antiselmitisme","tag-avigdor","tag-azov","tag-conservateur","tag-eskin","tag-israel","tag-kerry","tag-kiev","tag-nuland","tag-nullard","tag-odessa","tag-russie","tag-saakachvili","tag-sioniste","tag-sotchi","tag-trump","tag-ukraine","tag-ultra"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/75967","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=75967"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/75967\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=75967"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=75967"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/new.dedefensa.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=75967"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}